#Jan25 Tortured by the army الجيش في خدمة التعذيب
Khaled, detained following the army’s attack on Tahrir protesters yesterday, and tortured by military officers and soldiers at the Egyptian Museum building…
25 Responses
ABOUT 3ARABAWY
Hossam el-Hamalawy is an Egyptian journalist from Cairo
hossam [at] arabawy [dot] org
Ellie
March 10, 2011 - 6:25 PMShocking. Truly shocking. First, I hope he gets well soon. secondly, I hope he gets justice for this awful crime.
When the State uses such violence, it is because they are losing and deservedly so. Remember that, always.
Maryanne Stroud
March 10, 2011 - 7:03 PMThis is horrible. He’s one of the guys who was released and not charged, right?
3arabawy
March 10, 2011 - 7:10 PMYes.
linda
March 10, 2011 - 7:19 PMOh the poor man, this is horrible. He is suffering so much; thank goodness he is being looked after, but this terrible damage will never leave him, surely he will be traumatised. To be treated with such viciousness is outrageous
How awful….I wish him well.
There are kind and gentle people in the world; this man needs many such gentle and caring people in his life.
A German from Berlin
March 10, 2011 - 7:27 PMHuman garbage the people who do this. Doesn’t seem the army is composed of anything bug thugs either. What a shame for a countries military to have people in their rows committing these crimes and then not persecuting them.
aymanscribbler
March 10, 2011 - 7:41 PMThe Egyptian Museum needs to become a focus now of protests. A centre of torture right there in Tahrir, this can’t be tolerated and should in no way be normal.
نوران عارف
March 10, 2011 - 7:42 PMمينفعش الفيديو ده يتنشر دلوقتى الدنيا ولعة لوحدها بالاضافة الى ان الشرطة العسكرية هى اللى بتعمل كدا مش الجيش فى فرق على فكرة وبكرر انا مش ضدد ان احنا ناخد حق خالد بس الفيديو ده هيولع الدنيا
Mahmoud Shams
March 10, 2011 - 7:58 PMFirst, I am really sorry for Khaled, but again please all of us NOW NEED to be REASONABLE and HELP THE ARMY AND OUR COUNTRY, we should even for a short while STOP DEMONSTRATIONS and help the new GOVERMENT to restore secuirty and peace for us, so we can regain OUR COUNTRY….. And kindly dont push it with the Army, they are the Only SHIELD WE HAVE, and they are and were very clear standing and backing the REVOLUTION….
kamel
March 10, 2011 - 8:25 PMthe army does not consist of angels not a single group on earth does
this is a fact we all need to keep in mind…..
please no more taboos we had enough,, kindly judge everyone upon his action not upon his tag
Jonathan Moremi
March 10, 2011 - 8:27 PMSo what law permits the army to torture a person they detain in this horrific way, Mahmoud? Just give us the law, so we understand. Yes, they may be the only shield – but this is disgusting! The thugs that attacked got away free and the protesters like Khaled get beaten up like this? Where does it say in Egyptian law that people detained by army must be flogged like this? Where??? Who gives these soldiers the right to act like this? And you are willing to just cover up on it? No, this must go to the prosecutor immediately. Shield or no shield, whatever, those who torture Egyptians MUST face court. There is no other way. Especially as over 170 innocent protesters face jail up to 5 years. And what are those getting who beat up Khaled like this? Nothing. And according to you that is o.k. Well – you have not been beaten up I take it, or you would side with the victim not the torturer. If the army wants the people to trust them, this beating up of the people must stop immediately! Enough is enough. That is not what the new Egypt is about! And no government will stand a chance if this is allowed to continue to happen! The soldiers must now learn to behave according to the law. And if they can’t they must be thrown out of the army. It is about high time the SCAF takes action. Just apologising and letting it continue is not good enough in the Egypt after the Revolution! The time for torturing people is OVER!
Ali
March 10, 2011 - 8:32 PM@Mahmoud Shams
Shield against what? And if you push it with the army they will leave they country? So far the army either stayed out of it or was with the thugs of the old regime.
M_Radwan
March 10, 2011 - 10:39 PMel giesh byftre 3lena kda laih. A7a
Mahmoud Shams
March 11, 2011 - 12:35 AMDear Jonathan n Ali, I don’t really appreciate your way of discussion and if you don’t leave or accept an opinion, I am really worried of how could we ever communicate in a discussion, what i was talking about that we must move forward, and i really don’t believe that the ppl now in Tahrir square are Protestores these who are still there i don’t ally know what they want except they want Egypt to stay in chaos n in order for most of the demands have been met and i believe that new PM and his cabinet are coming with the approval of the revolution , So leave them to work and let’s move forward to Build our country, I believe that it’s not Patriotic that we stay demonstrating don’t know for what and why ??!!!
fubarista
March 11, 2011 - 12:38 AM@Ellie When a state uses such violence it is usually because they know that they can’t be held accountable and can do so with impunity. Weak states, states that are losing, states that fear loss of power, and states that are democracies, don’t brutalize their citizens like this, because they know they could be brought to justice.
In the United States police brutality is common and our military is engaged in crimes against humanity overseas, but both know that no matter what they do, the worst that will happen is that the taxpayers will have to pay compensation to their victims or their victims’ surviving families, and that they personally will not be held accountable. When victims or their survivors bring lawsuits, they are offered generous settlements (from taxpayer money) and told that if they don’t accept the money, drop their lawsuits, and agree not to speak about the case again, they will be tortured and/or killed too. Most take the money, knowing it is the closest to “justice” they’ll ever get.
In countries with democratic forms of government and where perpetrators of torture and crimes against humanity can be held personally accountable, police brutality and military crimes against humanity are rare or nonexistent.
Bullies and torturers are all cowards. They don’t act unless they are guaranteed impunity. President Obama renounced the Nuremberg Principles and adopted the Eichmann defense, that those who are just following orders, should not be penalized. It is his orders the Egyptian army followed when torturing innocent people the United States sent there in our extraordinary rendition program. Because they are following US orders, the Egyptian army gets paid $1.3 billion a year by the USA and are guaranteed impunity for their crimes.
Jonathan Moremi
March 11, 2011 - 1:27 AMMahmoud, your way of discussion is typical. ‘Let’s move forward’, ‘Let’s build the country’ – but looking away when fellow Egyptians are brutally mangeled and beaten up by soldiers. Just how do you want to build a country with such an attitude of looking away at such crimes happening right in front of your eyes? One can only build the country on laws that are abided by all – INCLUDING the army and the police. One can only build up the country by respecting human rights and human dignities and the right of each and everyone to live unharmed. You ignore all that – as long as everything is nicely quiet. A graveyard is quiet too – but its not a country one would want to live in! And besides – there are no people in Tahrir “at the moment”. You missed something. They were brutally beaten up and chased away yesterday by a coalition of thugs and soldiers. Didn’t get that?
Yes – the government is doing a great job. It has just passed a resolution that thuggery and intimediation falls under the penal code with harsh punishment. So if the government can take this seriously, give it a try too. It would make a much better country to build if people cared. I’m missing that totally. Khaled’s beating you just shrug off. Don’t say your “really feel sorry”. You don’t mean it at all because you are willing to let it happen again and again. You find discussing the question whether to demonstrate or not much more important than to protest against brutal torture of innocent, unarmed fellow-citizens. You are making a big mistake. It could be you tomorrow. Don’t be so sure it couldn’t.
saeed el mogrem
March 11, 2011 - 2:26 AMWhat verifies that what ur saying is true?! In consideration that am one of the protesters that lived in tahrir for 2weeks and in touch with people there ..what ur saying is very dangerous and important! Knowing that yesterday the armi started hiting people in tahrir with some stranger wearing normal cloth!! Still what proofs torture?!! No offence guys were all Egyptians and there for egypt..bass fakro ma3aya el bayt2al an el mosher bay3mel keda le7sab el nazam el adim we ano min a3wanoo 3alashan kam mawqeef!!zaher gedan.man7′tlfsh 3aleeh..gameeel. Tayeb law howa keda ! Leeeh 7aat ra2is wazara gadid kan mo3tasem ma3ana fii medan el ta7rir !!!? Wazir min el sawra!!we’ll wazara dii ded el sawra el modadaa!! 2el el mafrood yakon ra2isa law kalma saa7 tantawiii. Thanks
Dr/ Moon
March 11, 2011 - 2:33 AMdear jonathan
i think u r trying to say that egyptian army is foolowing the old regime
i dont think so coz we trust our army for making such example to any person that terrify his won people like ur khaled who i think he is not a protestor but a fellow of the old gang governed egypt by the blessing of ur god blessed united states for over 30 year
enough mental destruction for us and plz dont try to make us lose trust in ourselves
coz our army is from us and in us and for us and in all our history i dont find our army cut people heads or torture them for the sake of anyone but ur well trained dogs(internal affairs ministery) can make it with no eye blink
so plz leave us in our problems and dont try to show that u care about us
coz i dont think 99% of ur country do care
bye
fubarista
March 11, 2011 - 4:34 AM@ Dr/ Moon, if the person tortured was a thug, someone paid by the army and the security forces to attack protesters, there is even less reason for them to beat their own agent. But the army has already falsely described several well known protesters as thugs.
As for your army, which was supported by the US for over 30 years, and still gets $1.3 billion a year from the US, your belief that it is of you and for you is illogical. The US-backed army in Egypt was not only the old regime, but is also the current regime. It is the foreign influence in Egypt because it takes money and orders from the United States and Israel.
While it is true that many Americans don’t care, it is also true that many Egyptians, like yourself, don’t care either. Even mass murderers, people guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity, are brought to court at The Hague when possible, not beaten mercilessly. Because you don’t think there is anything wrong with beating a person like that, any trust you have in yourself is sorely misplaced. Bad people, even the worst of the worst, are entitled to human rights and trials, not torture and beatings.
This man was not beaten by the security forces, he was beaten by the army. An army that beats citizens, even the worst of criminals, is not to be trusted. But since the army has already falsely described protesters as thugs, you should be aware that it is no more truthful than it is merciful.
Dr/ Moon
March 11, 2011 - 4:49 AMdear fubarista
what my army does for us is better than if us army is included
and what makes u sure that was a protestor?
and give me the names of the well known protestors caught by army and really i will check it
i wanna understand and i care so much about my country issues in this critical period of time
and plz i will tell u something
it is better for me to be a victim and all my country live
u dont know what the thugs did for our people and who deals with us as a dangerous animal must be treated like a dangerous animal
give me ur clues and i will beleive ur case and ur caring
Dr/ Moon
March 11, 2011 - 5:04 AMand i think this $1.3 billion is a donation for us just to not act propably with the dearest natin for us israel by camp david agreement i.e we take it for more than 37 years now not as a fair for our army but as a shield for israel
fubarista
March 11, 2011 - 5:41 AM@ Dr/ Moon:
Here is one documented case, but there are others:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/egyptian-authorities-must-free-protester-convicted-military-court-2011-03-02
I think that your concern for Israel above Egypt says it all.
Your dear Zionists are just as brutal with the Palestinians as your army is with you. While you may be ready to sacrifice yourself and all other Egyptians for the sake of Israel, most of the world would prefer that fascist brutality, whether against Palestinians, Egyptians, or anyone else, give way to humane and democratic procedures that respect human rights and dignity.
Jonathan Moremi
March 11, 2011 - 12:43 PM@ Dr / Moon – it is useless to talk to you. You clearly belong to the old regime. And I’m not American just because I can speak good English. Typical to avoid the truth by inventing “foreign” forces. The old regime has done that allways. It is not new.
Your sentence “dangerous animals must be treated like dangerous animals” says it all. No one on Tahrir was a dangerous animal, no one. But 685 martyrs were brutally killed since Jan 25 and thousands have been illegally detained and tortured. Famous names amongst name. You know them well, you are just playing around because you don’t care. You pretend you do like Mubarak and his gang always pretended, but in truth you do not care for people at all. Forget it.
I have just had news from a friend last night that her brother who we searched for frantically since Jan 28 is probably dead. A body was found yesterday that could be him, the DNA test will show tomorrow. We are all devastated. He was an innocent, peaceful totally non-violent person who just walked to Tahrir to see what happened, and then they took him away. If he is dead now – that is the old Egypt you think is so good. You have understood nothing and you don’t deserve the befenifts of the revolution others have given their lives for.
Jonathan Moremi
March 11, 2011 - 1:31 PM@ Dr / Moon – If you want to know how good the army is, feel free to read:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/09/egypt-army-detentions-torture-accused?CMP=twt_gu
And don’t come and say its reporting from foreigners so it’s not true. The Egyptian Human Rights Groups sit in the middle of Cairo and not outside. And they know what they report. And the tortured who give testimonies are Egyptians too. It is time you started facing facts.
Ellie
March 11, 2011 - 3:52 PMfubarista
When I wrote ‘losing’ I wasn’t thinking of power, I was thinking of morally losing.
Jonathan Moremi
March 12, 2011 - 1:05 AMDr / Moon – and if you want to know more what really happened with the army torturing innocent people in Tahrir you can read this:
http://www.hrw.org/node/97265
Leaves no questions unanswered.